Electric vehicles/Fossil fuel powered: Difference between revisions

(Simplified the calculations)
No edit summary
Line 2: Line 2:


==Short answer==
==Short answer==
<big>'''Yes.'''</big>


'''Yes.'''
The carbon emissions, compared to a gas car, are approximately:
 
* 135% for coal power plants
The carbon emissions are '''about the same''' as gas cars, if the electricity is generated by
* 89% for ''older'' natural gas power plants {{light|(more common)}}
* coal power plants
* 56% for ''newer'' natural gas power plants {{light|(less common)}}
* ''simple'' natural gas power plants
 
For ''advanced'' natural gas power plants, which are more efficient, best-case carbon emissions are about '''half''' of what they'd be from driving a gas car.


==Long answer==
==Long answer==
Line 146: Line 144:
}}
}}


''For a gasoline car {{light|(typical amount{{x|using US-based statistic for lack of other data}} of driving)}}:''
''For a gasoline car'' {{light|(typical usage)}}:
{{calc
{{calc
|average_us_vehicle.mileage_by_time / car.fuel_economy * gasoline.ghg_by_energy
|average_us_vehicle.mileage_by_time / car.fuel_economy * gasoline.ghg_by_energy
|tonnes/year
|tonnes/year
|usage_emissions_if_gasoline
|usage_emissions_if_gasoline_car
}}
}}




''For an EV charged by coal power plants {{light|(same amount of driving as above)}}:''
''For an EV charged by '''coal''' power plants'' {{light|(same amount of driving as above)}}:
{{calc
{{calc
|average_us_vehicle.mileage_by_time / electric_car.fuel_economy_equivalent * coal.ghg_by_energy / coal_power_plant.efficiency / (100% - power_grid.losses) / li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency  
|average_us_vehicle.mileage_by_time / electric_car.fuel_economy_equivalent * coal.ghg_by_energy / coal_power_plant.efficiency / (100% - power_grid.losses) / li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency  
|tonnes/year
|tonnes/year
|usage_emissions_if_ev_coal
|usage_emissions_if_EV_coal
}}
}}




''For an EV charged by natural gas power plants {{light|(same amount of driving)}}:''
''For an EV charged by '''natural gas''' power plants'' {{light|(same amount of driving)}}:
{{calc
{{calc
|average_us_vehicle.mileage_by_time / electric_car.fuel_economy_equivalent * (natural_gas.ghg_by_energy + natural_gas.fugitive_ghg_by_energy) / natural_gas_power_plant.efficiency / (100% - power_grid.losses) / li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency
|average_us_vehicle.mileage_by_time / electric_car.fuel_economy_equivalent * (natural_gas.ghg_by_energy + natural_gas.fugitive_ghg_by_energy) / natural_gas_power_plant.efficiency / (100% - power_grid.losses) / li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency
|tonnes/year
|tonnes/year
|usage_emissions_if_ev_natural_gas
|usage_emissions_if_EV_natural_gas
}}
}}




''For an EV charged by ''advanced'' {{light|(combined-cycle type)}} natural gas power plants {{light|(same amount of driving)}}:
''For an EV charged by advanced {{light|(combined-cycle type)}} natural gas power plants'' {{light|(same amount of driving)}}:
{{calc
{{calc
|average_us_vehicle.mileage_by_time / electric_car.fuel_economy_equivalent * (natural_gas.ghg_by_energy + natural_gas.fugitive_ghg_by_energy) / natural_gas_combined_cycle_power_plant.efficiency / (100% - power_grid.losses) / li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency
|average_us_vehicle.mileage_by_time / electric_car.fuel_economy_equivalent * (natural_gas.ghg_by_energy + natural_gas.fugitive_ghg_by_energy) / natural_gas_combined_cycle_power_plant.efficiency / (100% - power_grid.losses) / li_ion.charge_discharge_efficiency
|tonnes/year
|tonnes/year
|usage_emissions_if_ev_advanced_natural_gas
|usage_emissions_if_EV_advanced_natural_gas
}}
}}




'''Battery emissions''' <!-- not technically a heading. we don't want mediawiki to generate a table of contents. -->
'''Battery production emissions''' <!-- not technically a heading. we don't want mediawiki to generate a table of contents. -->


So far, we still haven't counted the environmental impact of ''making'' an electric car, which is significantly more than for a gasoline-powered car.
So far, we still haven't counted the environmental impact of ''making'' an electric car, which is significantly more than for a gasoline-powered car.


For simplicity sake, let's count the emissions of making the batteries, and assume that making the rest of the car would take roughly the same emissions as making a gasoline-powered vehicle: {{x|Technically, the assumption is that the emissions ''divided by lifespan'' are about the same. Gasoline vehicles are more complex than batteryless EVs, but also have a longer lifespan.}}:
For simplicity sake, let's assume that ''batteries'' account for the entire difference between electric cars and gasoline cars, in terms of GHG emissions of ''production'' divided by vehicle ''lifespan''. {{x|A gasoline vehicle is a bit more complex than a batteryless EV, but the former also has a longer lifespan.}}


{{dp
{{dp
Line 211: Line 209:


'''''Now, for the final comparison:'''''
'''''Now, for the final comparison:'''''
{{calc
{{calc
|usage_emissions_if_ev_coal + battery_emissions
|usage_emissions_if_EV_coal + battery_emissions
|% usage_emissions_if_gasoline
|% usage_emissions_if_gasoline_car
}}
}}


{{calc
{{calc
|usage_emissions_if_ev_natural_gas + battery_emissions
|usage_emissions_if_EV_natural_gas + battery_emissions
|% usage_emissions_if_gasoline
|% usage_emissions_if_gasoline_car
}}
}}


{{calc
{{calc
|usage_emissions_if_ev_advanced_natural_gas + battery_emissions
|usage_emissions_if_EV_advanced_natural_gas + battery_emissions
|% usage_emissions_if_gasoline
|% usage_emissions_if_gasoline_car
}}
}}


Thus, with coal power, emissions are worse than driving a gasoline-powered car. But for ''advanced'' natural gas power plants, emissions are about half. In either case, this doesn't count the other environmental impacts {{light|(non-CO<sub>2</sub>)}} of mining lithium & cobalt.
Thus, with coal power, emissions are ''worse'' than driving a gasoline-powered car. But for ''advanced'' natural gas power plants, emissions are about ''half''. In either case, this doesn't count the other environmental impacts {{light|(non-CO<sub>2</sub>)}} of mining lithium & cobalt.


Maybe there would be a good case for fossil-fuel-electricity-powered vehicles if [[carbon capture and storage]] could be fully & safely applied to the power plants.
Maybe there would be a good case for fossil-fuel-electricity-powered vehicles if [[carbon capture and storage]] could be fully & safely applied to the power plants.
Retrieved from "https://olam.wiki/Electric_vehicles/Fossil_fuel_powered"